The Gunn dialogue is all Yoon, of course. I've never tried writing him; I'd have to watch at least a dozen Gunn-heavy episodes to even attempt that. I think his speech patterns change a lot over the course of the show - he used to be a lot more 'street' in the beginning.
Reading Angel, which is an aewsome collection of academic essays on the show, has one devoted to the white-ification (I forget the term) of Gunn. It is so dead-on it makes a depressing situation really tragic. Whedon just isn't good at handling racial issues.
L.A. should so not be the Land of White, but what can you do. The first season had some ethnic variety (the Koreans in "Parting Gifts," Gunn's multi-ethnic gang, various others) but after that, with a few exceptions like "The Thin Dead Line," there's a steep decline in non-whites.
The world of Fray isn't much better if I recall correctly, nor is Tales of the Vampires. I mean, yeah, Kendra, but in general this is a white enterprise. This is not an area in which I am pleased with Whedon.
I think one member of Gunn's gang was possibly Hispanic, although I'd have to rewatch "War Zone."
Ditto the guy Angel & co. chase down in "Five by Five"'s opening, the one Angel flings into a chair in his office and tells him that he has to face his demons sometime, then shoves into court to testify against whoever Lindsey is representing. (At least, I think it was "Five by Five." Now I have to rewatch it. It involves a brief car chase.)
Maria in "Judgement" (2.1) looked like she might be Hispanic.
This is really not helping Whedon's case. I'm scrabbling here.
The only one I could think of was the girl in "Judgment" and yeah, possibly one of Gunn's gang (or one of Anne's. Iirc there was an Asain girl and a Hispanic dude running to Anne's from the police in "The Thin Dead Line").
I forgot about the dude in 5x5 (but I think you're thinking of the right ep).
But yeah. It just seems to me they missed out on some really interesting concepts by filtering the issue of race out so completely (because they kept it to some extent, insofar as demons being different races. Like in "The Old Gang Of Mine".)
Oh, I could gripe about this forever--it's not as if metaphorizing demons as Other meant you had to ditch all the real-world race problems as well. The interaction of the two could have led to some good ongoing plot as per Gunn's old gang and his torn loyalties (as per leaving them behind toward the end of S2), or at least more one-shots giving the city some depth.
I won't even get into my they-missed-the-boat-with-Gunn whine here. I think I'd be whining to the choir. :-D
One of the reasons I wrote "Radio Free" (http://pegasus.cityofveils.com/ey/ats-radiofree.phtml) and later this script was to have more Gunn. I know people have at various points asked for Spike, but (a) I spent most of the history of the Buffyverse disliking Spike (although I liked him during S5, so...), (b) IDW has Angel-Spike team-ups covered in the official comics, and (c) there is no dearth of Spike in the ficcy world.
I'm writing Gunn for a fic now. I'd heard it before, but it wasn't until I really started trying to write his voice that I really started thinking about it--how much is there and how much more there could be and how there isn't enough fic about him. It makes me kinda sad. Oh. I miss my shows.
But yeah. I love Radio Free; I love this, and I love Gunn.
One of the things about Gunn post NFA is he has this really correct, high falutin legalese he can do, but plus all the street talk from his early days, plus the voice he develops in Angel which is yeah, less street, and maybe a little more Whedonesque. And then you mix 'em all together and I have no idea what you're left with!
But he's so great in this. I love Gunn. And I love your drawings of him!
Thanks! :-) One of the fun things about writing dialogue for these two is that they have such distinct voices, but in fic I am used to being able to get characterization across using description as well, and for the comic script it had to be all dialogue. (My panel descriptions are pretty minimalist--astridv is the artist, I am not good at visualization, so that just seemed logical. After this has been posted in its entirety you might be able to get me to post the script.)
You meant post-"Home," right? Because in the comicverse ("Old Friends," at least, appears to be post-NFA) he seems to have gone back to something more like street vernacular. And that's another thing, how as part of the underclass he has to learn to talk "up," even if the privileged members of society don't need to learn to talk "down," and that's a whole dynamic that Angel barely ever touched upon despite the series' fondness for wordplay. You basically only see it in, what, "Deep Down," when Fred is trying out terms like "word" and "dog" and an exasperated Gunn tells her that she (the skinny white Texan) can't talk like that. I imagine on the street she would get her butt kicked...
Oh. Well, I don't read the comics (Except for astridv's and by extension yours, obviously!) though I wish I did. Even if he does go back pretty much to street vernacular, it seems to me he still *has* this whole database of legal jargon and fancy talk. Seems to me if he couldn't think of a way to say something one way, he'd say it the other--but then I guess everyone would look at him kinda weird.
Well, I think you kinda see it in "Waiting In The Wings" (Angel: "Gunn, these guys are tight, and you're gonna be trippin' out." Gunn: "Don't be usin' my own phrases when we lost the trust.") But yeah, there seems like there's lots they could've done there that they didn't play with.
If one considers the IDW comicverse canon, Old Friends (which is definitely post-NFA; not all of them are) pretty much establishes that Gunn still has the braindump in his head.
Code-switching is pretty useful sometimes. Gunn's smart, and he's had enough experience learning to work it both ways. I can just see him breaking out into street slang in the boardroom for emphasis...
It's been a long time since I've seen "Waiting in the Wings" (okay, since I've seen any part of S3 other than "Lullaby" and the Connor-returned bits I had to clip for a vid), but you're right; I'd forgotten about that exchange. Entertaining but apropos how Angel can talk the talk, he just sounds like a dork doing so.
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L.A. should so not be the Land of White, but what can you do. The first season had some ethnic variety (the Koreans in "Parting Gifts," Gunn's multi-ethnic gang, various others) but after that, with a few exceptions like "The Thin Dead Line," there's a steep decline in non-whites.
The world of Fray isn't much better if I recall correctly, nor is Tales of the Vampires. I mean, yeah, Kendra, but in general this is a white enterprise. This is not an area in which I am pleased with Whedon.
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Ditto the guy Angel & co. chase down in "Five by Five"'s opening, the one Angel flings into a chair in his office and tells him that he has to face his demons sometime, then shoves into court to testify against whoever Lindsey is representing. (At least, I think it was "Five by Five." Now I have to rewatch it. It involves a brief car chase.)
Maria in "Judgement" (2.1) looked like she might be Hispanic.
This is really not helping Whedon's case. I'm scrabbling here.
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I forgot about the dude in 5x5 (but I think you're thinking of the right ep).
But yeah. It just seems to me they missed out on some really interesting concepts by filtering the issue of race out so completely (because they kept it to some extent, insofar as demons being different races. Like in "The Old Gang Of Mine".)
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But the sad truth of it is they missed big chances with Gunn at so, so many turns.
Which is one of the reasons I really like this comic. I love to see him featured.
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One of the reasons I wrote "Radio Free" (http://pegasus.cityofveils.com/ey/ats-radiofree.phtml) and later this script was to have more Gunn. I know people have at various points asked for Spike, but (a) I spent most of the history of the Buffyverse disliking Spike (although I liked him during S5, so...), (b) IDW has Angel-Spike team-ups covered in the official comics, and (c) there is no dearth of Spike in the ficcy world.
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But yeah. I love Radio Free; I love this, and I love Gunn.
I love Spike, but it's true--he's all over.
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One of the things about Gunn post NFA is he has this really correct, high falutin legalese he can do, but plus all the street talk from his early days, plus the voice he develops in Angel which is yeah, less street, and maybe a little more Whedonesque. And then you mix 'em all together and I have no idea what you're left with!
But he's so great in this. I love Gunn. And I love your drawings of him!
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You meant post-"Home," right? Because in the comicverse ("Old Friends," at least, appears to be post-NFA) he seems to have gone back to something more like street vernacular. And that's another thing, how as part of the underclass he has to learn to talk "up," even if the privileged members of society don't need to learn to talk "down," and that's a whole dynamic that Angel barely ever touched upon despite the series' fondness for wordplay. You basically only see it in, what, "Deep Down," when Fred is trying out terms like "word" and "dog" and an exasperated Gunn tells her that she (the skinny white Texan) can't talk like that. I imagine on the street she would get her butt kicked...
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Well, I think you kinda see it in "Waiting In The Wings" (Angel: "Gunn, these guys are tight, and you're gonna be trippin' out." Gunn: "Don't be usin' my own phrases when we lost the trust.") But yeah, there seems like there's lots they could've done there that they didn't play with.
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Code-switching is pretty useful sometimes. Gunn's smart, and he's had enough experience learning to work it both ways. I can just see him breaking out into street slang in the boardroom for emphasis...
It's been a long time since I've seen "Waiting in the Wings" (okay, since I've seen any part of S3 other than "Lullaby" and the Connor-returned bits I had to clip for a vid), but you're right; I'd forgotten about that exchange. Entertaining but apropos how Angel can talk the talk, he just sounds like a dork doing so.