My two cents on FanLib.com

[astridv]

(I gotta get to work but this meta has been scratching at the inside of my head, wanting out.)

[edit: removed the direkt link to fanlib.com; no need to up their google ranking] The FanLib discussion has finally hit metafandom; tomorrow it should be all over LJ.

My first reaction when I read about it on fanthropology last week was: knee-jerk unease and skepticism. Now that I've checked out the site and a little of the debate, my response is: yet more unease and skepticism: the whole thing makes my hair stand on end. Can't help it, it smells of exploitation and viral marketing... some entertainment business folk trying to get their foot in the door and cash in on things that we do for free, driven by nothing but love for a story or a fictional character.


One problem is that it's a multifandom fic archive that's owned by people with no roots in fandom and no real understanding of our particular community and subculture.

The site's slogan is: "The world's greatest fan fiction by popular demand." That's the kind of marketing lingo that goes over really well. I did some browsing through the fic that's already up... can't say I'm impressed. Small wonder, it's a non-selective archive, of course they can't have 'the greatest'. Come to think of it, it's that bubbly, hyperbolic marketing-speak that's responsible for much of my knee-jerking. All this talk of 'exciting' or 'grand prizes' sounds, I don't know... artificial.

From the press release:

The launch of FanLib.com represents the coming of age of fan fiction, or "fanfic."

*twitch*

"For my most passionate fans, reading isn't enough—they want to extend the story, to put their favorite characters in new situations," said Scott Westerfeld, New York Times bestselling author of the Uglies trilogy. "FanLib.com helps these readers find each other and gives them a space to share what they've created."

What would we do without them.

I think what I find most disturbing (not getting into the complete lack of women - or anyone with any fannish history - on the board) is this part:

FanLib.com launches with co-promotional partners including HarperCollins, Penguin Books, Showtime Networks, Simon & Schuster, and Starz Entertainment. The launch partners are heavily featured and have customized marketing integrated on the site while providing promotion for FanLib.com.

The whole issue of copyrights and licenses is completely unresolved, yet here's a for-profit enterprise who're completely upfront about their intention to make money from the site. (note: I do think it's a good thing that they're upfront about it, but that still leaves the problems inherent in it.)

The thing is that because of said partnerships with some publishers or networks, one could get the deceptive impression that the fic on the site has TPTB-approval. If you look closely, nowhere does it say that the actual copyright holders have given their okay. Of course they haven't... and if they had it'd be a huge thing that we certainly would've heard of.

Fanfic has always been denied real recognition and Fanlib isn't changing that. It gives an illusion of recognition and legitimacy, but not the real thing. I doubt they would provide the fic writers with any kind of protection from charges of copyright infringement.

All that said, I actually like the site itself. Don't look at me like that *g*. It's a bit too flashy for my personal taste but it's obvious there's a lot of effort going into designing and maintaining it. Maybe it'll catch on. Maybe the license thing won't be an issue. But fact is that a) the people making money off it are neither the writers nor the copyright holders, but a third party, and b) we're left in just the uncertain legal position we've always been in. I do have trouble imagining how it is supposed to work. I'm really unclear on the legal implications.

I just know that this is as far from 'flying under the radar' as it gets. They had a *press release*, for Pete's sake.

[eta: by angiepen: Browsing the FanLib TOS. Interesting, to say the least.]

[eta2(May18): FanLib Emerges From Stealth Mode with $3M in Funding and Big Media Sponsors
quote: "This is one niche site that has a lot of support and will do well capitalizing on existing communities around media for an extended period of time."
... no comment.]

[eta3(May19): From BusinessWeek (MARCH 13, 2006): Putting The Fans To Work
choice quote"The genius of FanLib is realizing that fans can be happy just being recognized."
HAAAHAHAhahaha]

Comments

[newscaper.livejournal.com]

Hmmm.

I'm not quite sure what to make of fanlib versus FFN with respect to "non-profit".

In the sense tossed around when people are worried about staying under fair use, it simply means one didn't make any money off the work.

OTOH in the accounting sense "non-profit" means there is no one getting the "leftover" money made after all the expenses have been paid.

There have been plenty of scandals with non-profits. Why? The big wheels who are employees can be paid big $$s which do not count as "profits" in the legal sense, so they sure as hell are making money off it. Non-profit just means there are no pesky stockholders or the taxman looking over their shoulders closely.

If FFN is presumably non-profit, well the ad revenue could still be paying the salaries of full time paid employees (the founders?) -- so, yes, they, the individuals would be [presumably] making money off it after all.

It realliy is a shame there is not big fan run archive like a better FFN , that did do like fanlib seems to be trying to do in terms of promoting the better fics within the site, or at least had a reader star rating system that was smart enough to try to block spoofing/ballot stuffing. I remember one Farscape archive that was pretty good about that.

[carmarthen.livejournal.com]

If FFN is presumably non-profit, well the ad revenue could still be paying the salaries of full time paid employees (the founders?) -- so, yes, they, the individuals would be [presumably] making money off it after all.

Nonprofit corporations are completely entitled to pay full-time employees. Hell, many colleges are nonprofit (you can view their tax returns), and college presidents often pull in multi-million salaries.

Now, if we could figure out where ff.net is legally based, I believe we could find their tax returns.

[carmarthen.livejournal.com]

*Now, if we could figure out where ff.net is legally based, I believe we could find their tax returns.

Er, assuming their are nonprofit, that is.

[newscaper.livejournal.com]

I know that (about non-profit corps). But the 'not-for-profit' partial defense (necessary but not sufficient) wrt copyright does not use "profit" in the same sense.

As an overly simple example of my point, what if I submitted fanfic stories to a fanfic website which I happened to employed by as a DBA? Yes, I am not being paid for the fanfic in a strict sense, but I'm damned sure profiting of fit in a more general, indirect sense.
See the difference?

Here's another example form a different angl:.
I've had several people which they could buy my Servare Vitas in book form. What would happen if I put my story up on Cafe Press in PDF so readers could buy their own Print On Demand "book"?

If I made the markuop 0% over cost, I would not be profiting (Of course I might be presumably hurting the sales of licensed Bones tie-ins so wouldn;t try it).

But in that scenario Cafe Press IS making a profit off it.

It's a nasty tangled mess.

[astridv.livejournal.com]

quoting from what I wrote elsewhere:
What I haven't seen anyone mention before is... if these people openly try to capitalize fanfic, the next logical step will have to be writers asking, "If they can make money with my fic, why can't I?" There, can open, worms everywhere. If people start to openly profit from fic, this might decrease our chances of a fair use ruling in our favour, since 'nonprofit' use is one of the factors examined to decide fair use.

Here's another example form a different angl:.
I've had several people which they could buy my Servare Vitas in book form. What would happen if I put my story up on Cafe Press in PDF so readers could buy their own Print On Demand "book"?

That's what Lori Jareo attempted when she put her Star Wars fan novel up on amazon. She said it didn't even cover cost, which I found plausible, but that didn't do her any good. I don't know if Lucasfilm or whoever owns the rights had to send that C&D, but her site was gone the moment they got alerted to the case, and Jareos name became another cautionary tale (just google 'Lori Jareo'.)

From all I heard in the last days, ffn is non-profit. And like I said in that other post, they can make money and pay their employees, even significant amounts, but they can't go overboard. (now, how 'go overboard' is actually defined, I don't know... no idea where the limit is.) But FanLib is for-profit from the getgo, and that's where I see a significant difference.

[astridv.livejournal.com]

ahem, I hit post before I had a chance to edit; hope this isn't too unstructured or typo-riddled.

I'm off to the fleamarket now. :)

[carmarthen.livejournal.com]

That is a distinction which I was unaware of, but I'm not sure it would make the situation legally cut-and-dried. For example, FF.net seems to be hiring (!) translators now (implied paid). Those translators provide a service that isn't any less legally defensible than writing fanfiction in the first place. It is a service that would be nearly impossible to provide without paying people. I suspect a good lawyer could still get ff.net out of any accusations of profiting off fanfiction.

But I'm not sure it's really all that relevant to the whole FanLib debate.