astridv | My two cents on FanLib.com

Entry tags:

fanfic:meta,
meta

My two cents on FanLib.com

(I gotta get to work but this meta has been scratching at the inside of my head, wanting out.)

[edit: removed the direkt link to fanlib.com; no need to up their google ranking] The FanLib discussion has finally hit

metafandom; tomorrow it should be all over LJ.

My first reaction when I read about it on

fanthropology last week was: knee-jerk unease and skepticism. Now that I've checked out the site and a little of the debate, my response is: yet more unease and skepticism: the whole thing makes my hair stand on end. Can't help it, it smells of exploitation and viral marketing... some entertainment business folk trying to get their foot in the door and cash in on things that we do for free, driven by nothing but love for a story or a fictional character.

One problem is that it's a multifandom fic archive that's owned by people with no roots in fandom and no real understanding of our particular community and subculture.

The site's slogan is: "The world's greatest fan fiction by popular demand." That's the kind of marketing lingo that goes over really well. I did some browsing through the fic that's already up... can't say I'm impressed. Small wonder, it's a non-selective archive, of course they can't have 'the greatest'. Come to think of it, it's that bubbly, hyperbolic marketing-speak that's responsible for much of my knee-jerking. All this talk of 'exciting' or 'grand prizes' sounds, I don't know... artificial.

From the press release:

The launch of FanLib.com represents the coming of age of fan fiction, or "fanfic."

*twitch*

"For my most passionate fans, reading isn't enough—they want to extend the story, to put their favorite characters in new situations," said Scott Westerfeld, New York Times bestselling author of the Uglies trilogy. "FanLib.com helps these readers find each other and gives them a space to share what they've created."

What would we do without them.

I think what I find most disturbing (not getting into the complete lack of women - or anyone with any fannish history - on the board) is this part:

FanLib.com launches with co-promotional partners including HarperCollins, Penguin Books, Showtime Networks, Simon & Schuster, and Starz Entertainment. The launch partners are heavily featured and have customized marketing integrated on the site while providing promotion for FanLib.com.

The whole issue of copyrights and licenses is completely unresolved, yet here's a for-profit enterprise who're completely upfront about their intention to make money from the site. (note: I do think it's a good thing that they're upfront about it, but that still leaves the problems inherent in it.)

The thing is that because of said partnerships with some publishers or networks, one could get the deceptive impression that the fic on the site has TPTB-approval. If you look closely, nowhere does it say that the actual copyright holders have given their okay. Of course they haven't... and if they had it'd be a huge thing that we certainly would've heard of.

Fanfic has always been denied real recognition and Fanlib isn't changing that. It gives an illusion of recognition and legitimacy, but not the real thing. I doubt they would provide the fic writers with any kind of protection from charges of copyright infringement.

All that said, I actually like the site itself. Don't look at me like that *g*. It's a bit too flashy for my personal taste but it's obvious there's a lot of effort going into designing and maintaining it. Maybe it'll catch on. Maybe the license thing won't be an issue. But fact is that a) the people making money off it are neither the writers nor the copyright holders, but a third party, and b) we're left in just the uncertain legal position we've always been in. I do have trouble imagining how it is supposed to work. I'm really unclear on the legal implications.

I just know that this is as far from 'flying under the radar' as it gets. They had a *press release*, for Pete's sake.

[eta: by

angiepen: Browsing the FanLib TOS. Interesting, to say the least.]

[eta2(May18): FanLib Emerges From Stealth Mode with $3M in Funding and Big Media Sponsors
quote: "This is one niche site that has a lot of support and will do well capitalizing on existing communities around media for an extended period of time."
... no comment.]

[eta3(May19): From BusinessWeek (MARCH 13, 2006): Putting The Fans To Work
choice quote"The genius of FanLib is realizing that fans can be happy just being recognized."
HAAAHAHAhahaha]

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

hey everyone,
I'm Chris one of the founders of FanLib> it's really late and i have been working on the site all day. I'm exhausted but i just realized what was going on here and all of the commentsts are making me sick. we're a small company with 10 emplyees who work 16 hours a day to try and make a great website. we're real people! with feelings and everything! we have been working on this and dreaming about it for a long time and you are just here to shit on it without giving us a chance. i care deeply about what you think but this is crazy. we're good people here and you make us sound like we're an evil corporation or the govt. sending your kids to war or something. we really are all about celebrating fan fiction and fan fiction readers and writers. im sorry this is so short and please excuse the fact that i am cutting and pasting this across a bunch of ljs but i gotta get some sleep.
chris

woh! if this really is coming from one of the founders of fanlib, than I think their business model may be a self-correcting one - in that a lack of professionalism and inability to discuss the issues (even with people that are - in one's own opinion - being unreasonable) are the hallmarks of failure.

So let's hope this is a troll and not the "coming of age of fan fiction, or "fanfic."

PS. You keep using this word "fanfic".... I do not think it means what you think it means....

Huh. Just got out of bed and this comment is the first thing I see. I'm pretty sure it's a troll, but I need to have some tea and get some more info before making up my mind.

But dude, yeah, if this is not a troll... no, can't be. My whole impression of their site was one of professionalism. This... doesn't compute.

It's a troll. The posts from staff on their forums are unfailingly polite, regardless of whether the poster is criticising something they've done, and correctly spelt and capitalised.

Why would anyone post there? Well, to my mind, it's a competitor to fanfiction.net. And when's the last time anyone saw any moderation going on round there? The most popular forum by far is run by a twat who thinks it's clever to post personal abuse as reviews (he claims to have left over 5,000 so far), and that it's funny to suggest an author goes out and kills themself, provided he only picks stories which aren't very well written. The Misc subsections are so full of original fic that you can barely find a fic which should be there. There's no help/support section any more, so no way to request new sections for new movies/shows etc. Even blatant cut-and-paste plagiarism isn't removed, and nor is the sort of RPF which is far more likely to bring about lawsuits than anything fanlib is doing. And nobody dares leave a review which so much as says you're spelling the name of a canon character wrong any more, because they know full well they're setting themself up for abusive reviews and PMs with no report mechanism. That flamer I mentioned? Has a sockpuppet account, so you can't delete his copy/pasted random abuse, and can't report him (no fics to report, no way to report members, no way to report reviews, no way to report forums even if they do break every rule there is). In my fandoms, people are deserting for fanlib in droves.

lj? I write in a couple of small, old fandoms. I might as well leave my fanfic under the bed. I'd never get any casual readers there either.

Give me a well-run, not-for-profit fanfic site owned by people who care, and I'll post there, every time. Fanfiction.net used to be that, but it isn't now. Give me the choice between an abandoned flamer's paradise and a well-run site with commercial backing but which costs me nothing to use, and I'm going for the commercial one.

It's a troll. The posts from staff on their forums are unfailingly polite, regardless of whether the poster is criticising something they've done, and correctly spelt and capitalised.

I've gone back and forth but I think it's the real thing.

Btw, could you sign your posts here? As soon as I get more than one anonmymouse, it easily gets confusing...

Judging by his response (http://telesilla.livejournal.com/553920.html?thread=4406464#t4406464) in my LJ linking me to the FAQ and saying that I should read it and consider the dialog open, I'm guessing it's real.

Yeah, I saw that thread. Way to open a dialog. I don't know about you but that comment put me in a real trusting, mellow mood.

(note to self: self, pleaseplease remember to sleep a night on any post you write when being upset. Better to do the damage control before posting.)

So far the best comment has been

annlarimer's reply: "You sound completely professional and your posts inspire my confidence."

I'm taking him at his word and posting a question by question look at the FAQ. I doubt I'll get anything like an answer, but it was a way to put off writing fic for another night.

Actually it's the fact that you deleted this comment in other journals that convinced me that you're not a troll. Which leaves me even more stumped at the sheer unprofessionalism of your comment. I thought my post was quite balanced and reasonable. I raised some valid concerns (and yes, I have read your new & improved FAQ but the concerns remain), and if you want to respond, it would be a good idea to stay away from language like "you are just here to shit on it".

Not to mention that you went out of your way to spam people in their privat journals. But okay, 16 hour day. Cautionary tale of why one should never ever post online when overtired, I guess.

I'm starting to wonder whether you guys are actually not aware of the fact that fanfic's legal status is completely hanging in the air, and that you're dealing with a community who have been operating under the assumption that at any given moment they could get into legal trouble for what they do. And the occasional C&D that some writers/artists get hit with show that any paranoia on our side is far from unfounded.

I wholeheartedly believe that not-for-profit fanfic (emphasis on not-for-profit) should be protected under the fair use clause. I hope that one day there will be a decision in that regard. Until then, I'm treading carefully.

So, if you're dealing with fandom, you really should be aware of that paranoia, and acknowledge that there's a reason for it. Also, you really need a thicker skin or stay away from LJ. Arguing is what we do here. And the fic community is not gonna mollycoddle anything that has 'corporate backup' written over it.

Okay, I normally lurk, but this is getting to me.

I've written fanfic for 25 years without ever having an lj account. Like it or not, you are not, nor do you represent, "the fic community". There is no one fic community, and your particular little clique has no right to expect to have input into how other fanfic sites are run. Don't like fanlib? Then don't post your fic there. But sitting here whinging about how "the fic community" wasn't consulted, or, oh, no, the site's run by MEN!!!, does you no favours at all.

I have no association with fanlib at all, except that I think it offers me as a fanfic author a darn good facility. Plus it's far less likely to end up in court than fanfiction.net is, since it's being actively moderated. Right now the only way an affronted party could get something taken down from fanfiction.net WOULD be a lawsuit, since they don't respond to abuse reports any more.

nor do you represent, "the fic community".

Fair enough. My bad.

and your particular little clique has no right to expect to have input into how other fanfic sites are run.

But we do have the right to express our opinions about them. Which we do. One wonders why FanLib are even bothered by the opinions voiced by our 'little clique'.

... also, please sign your posts when you post anonymously, otherwise it can be difficult to tell the various mice apart.

you are not, nor do you represent, "the fic community".

Well, I think Astrid represents the fic community the same way I do, or you do, or any of us do. Which is something that Chris, above, seems to miss: fandom is not a monolith. We can only speak for ourselves and those we know, and even then we disagree and squabble amongst ourselves.

The discussions on LJ about Fanlib aren't the result of some coordinated attack: it's a lot of individuals going, "Hmmm, this bothers me and this is why." So sure, some people are going to say Fanlib is awesome, but Astrid and I and Telesilla and Angiepen all have the right to say what we think, as well.

When someone like FanLib threatens to bring the bright light of media attention and the potential lawsuits which go with it into our playground then yes, we damn well have the right to complain. If it were only FanLib drawing the potential trouble down upon itself then I personally wouldn't care. But they're exposing all the writers they manage to bring onto their site (and according to their TOS are trying to push all the legal responsibility onto those writers -- the fact that that'll never work if it comes to a lawsuit is immaterial) and any court case they trigger will likely impact all of us. That makes it our business and we'll comment as we see fit, whether or not anonymous trolls who don't have the guts to even sign a nickname like it.

Angie

This is probably not a troll. I don't know the guy personally but know people who do.

Chris: you guys are doing something sleazy and selfish, you ARE an evil corporation, and NO, we do not have to give you a chance. You didn't bother getting a single fanfic writer/reader on your board, you didn't bother with any outreach to our community or give a second's thought to our concerns, so why should we? You are clearly just trying to make money and a name for yourselves on our backs, and the intellectual property of the original creators.

Speaking for myself, I intend to do anything I can to urge other fanfic writers not to post on your site and to set up an alternative. One thing your FAQ is right about is that fanfiction.net is not particularly better.

I saw the post at your journal. It's a daunting project but I love the idea. One of those cases of 'why has no one thought of that before'.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

My two cents on FanLib.com

fanlib

What We Have Here Is A Failure To Communicate

Re: What We Have Here Is A Failure To Communicate

Re: What We Have Here Is A Failure To Communicate

Re: What We Have Here Is A Failure To Communicate

Re: What We Have Here Is A Failure To Communicate

Re: What We Have Here Is A Failure To Communicate

Re: What We Have Here Is A Failure To Communicate

Re: fanlib

Re: fanlib

Re: fanlib

Re: fanlib

Re: fanlib

Re: fanlib

Re: fanlib

Re: fanlib