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I'm still following the fic debate on Goldberg's blog (rerun #2047). No, I won't get into the usual conflating of legalities/ethics/morals and the invocation of Godwin's law - I've come to expect nothing less from that blog. No... I'm stumped on what a fundamental level the anti-fic crowd don't get us.

They do not get the basic motivation for writing fanfic. They don't even seem to realize that there's a whole group of people who love to read it, that there's an actual eager audience for it, that fic is - among other things - an act of communication. That it fills a need. In fact, the group of fic readers has been continually glossed over as long as I'm following this debate, as if they don't factor in.

It becomes crystal-clear each time someone suggests that it's okay to write it for practice as long as you don't post it (*head/desk*)... or to write it and then change characters and settings to turn it into an original work before posting it. Every time I read the arguments, I sit there staring at the screen, bewildered by the gulf between the two mindsets.

It's like two races of aliens trying to communicate.

Kind of exasperating but fascinating nonetheless.

Here's my crazy hypothesis - feel free to disagree: I've come to suspect there are two sorts of people... those who daydream and those who don't. There're those who watch a show, only to have the characters take on a life of their own in their heads, who can't help making up little tales: when I was a kid, I spent hours on end walking through the forest with the dog, making up little stories in a weird crossover 'verse made up of Star Trek and Star Wars and my favourite young adult novel series (complete with Mary Sue and boy, am I glad the internet wasn't around back then). I couldn't get enough of that, and I always kind of assumed that everyone does that. (I still write fic in my head nowadays, except sans Mary Sue.)

But I'm no longer so sure everyone does it, otherwise how do folks like the commenters on Lee's blog don't realize, no matter how often rational people like

lost_erizo and

lexin tell them, that for the vast majority of fic writers, fic is not the means to an end (which would be becoming a rich, famous writer, I suppose). There're pleasant side benefits, like improving your writing skills and making friends, getting feedback... but fanfic is what it's about - the sharing of stories about characters you love with likeminded people. Doesn't get much simpler than that, one should think.

Well, maybe those folks do daydream strictly original szenarios, who knows. In any case, this debate will go round and round and round and never ever be resolved. But from a cultural viewpoint, I find it interesting.

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That's a fascinating thought. I've always been a dreamer, and yeah, have always composed fanfic in my head -- from Playmobil and Lego over my books and my fantasy RPG characters to TV shows....

Oh yeah, I was playing Winnetou scenarios with my Playmobil figures.

I'd really be surprised if anyone on my friends list told me they weren't a dreamer. It'd ruin my whole hypothesis. *g*

I was doing this on some level for as long as I could remember, and always thought I was a weirdo for it, and didn't talk about it much. Discovering fan fiction as a young adult was wonderful because I didn't feel so strange anymore.

I grew up in a little town and I didn't know a single person who was interested in fannish things like Comics and Star Trek. I was so damn glad when I left for uni and met people who I actually shared interests with. (In other words, other geeks. ;o) I felt right at home... it was awesome.)

I, too, have to shake my head sometimes. Have they never heard of doing something just for the pleasure of it? Haven't they ever composed episodes of their favorite shows in their heads? If not, I don't get them at all. I'm like you--all my life, I've had my imagination spurred on by things I've read or watched, and I've wanted to live in that world for a while. Fanfic lets me do that, just a little, and finding new friends is the icing on the cake. Yeah, I hope to go pro, but in the meantime, fanfic fulfills my creative urges quite nicely.

Haven't they ever composed episodes of their favorite shows in their heads?

I've been following this for a year, and I really think they haven't.

Have they never heard of doing something just for the pleasure of it?

Yes! And what's so special and holy about writing that you either have to do it professionally or stay away from it entirely? There's this disdain for the amateur writer, not just of fanfic, that would never be shown to someone who likes to knit in their spare time, or play sports, or music. I personally think some pro writers suffer from low self esteem and project like crazy. You'll notice that folks like JKR don't have a problem with fic, and Joss Whedon is on the record loving it... that's one more reason why Joss is my master. :)

Funny you should mention knitting in your list of things that people don't disdain the amateur for -- because upon taking it up again seriously a few years back, I couldn't help but notice how many people came up to me suggesting I find a way to sell the things I knit and/or work on commission. They invariably meant it as a compliment (or were trying to get me to make something for them), and had to have it explained to them that for the number of hours I put into doing it there's no way anyone would pay me enough to approach even minimum wage for the worktime. I do it for the fun of it, and the things I make are either for myself or for family and close friends. (I have made items for pay twice. The first time was me trying the name-a-price method as an attempt to scare off someone I didn't want to make something for and I set my price too low, and the second time it was because I wanted to make Pippin's scarf from the LotR movies but knew it wasn't a thing I'd actually want to wear myself once I had it. On the scarf I later calculated I'd put a good thirty hours into something I got paid $35 for.)

So, yeah. There's a whole mindset that I think comes from figuring that it must be heavenly to turn a hobby into a career and thereby have a job you really enjoy, that doesn't realize that A) having to make a paying proposition out of an activity can take a lot of the joy out of it and B) that a hobby can be defined as, "something you pay to do."

and had to have it explained to them that for the number of hours I put into doing it there's no way anyone would pay me enough to approach even minimum wage for the worktime.

That's another point, yeah. The money paid for comics artwork in Germany (where I live) is so laughable that you can just as well draw it for free and spend your work hours on stuff that pays a lot better. That way, you retain all your creative freedom and you don't have to deal with deadlines.

So, yeah. There's a whole mindset that I think comes from figuring that it must be heavenly to turn a hobby into a career and thereby have a job you really enjoy, that doesn't realize that A) having to make a paying proposition out of an activity can take a lot of the joy out of it

I did turn my hobby into a job... and slowly, without even me noticing, it had turned into a chore. I rediscovered the joy through fan art. Ever since I found that outlet, I have all sorts of new energy for the paid work. Tell that to our pro friends. They sound like writing has to be a chore in order to make you a 'real' writer.

and B) that a hobby can be defined as, "something you pay to do."

Heh. True.

I think maybe a lot of the problem comes down to a regrettable but popular trend to define value of almost anything solely in monetary terms. So if someone spends many hours on an activity for which there is no possible hope of financial gain (or even secondary gain, as with the argument that, "Fanfic lets me practice and build skills so I can become a professional later on"), and if that activity isn't one generally recognized as in and of itself worth paying money to do (e.g., paying for a health club membership or to attend a sporting event), then to the "value should have a monetary amount" mindset fandom boils down to spending many hours on something of literally no value.

I've always daydreamed stories. Original ones at first, though terribly derivative of whatever fantasy/SF book I'd read last. I started experimenting with fanfic in my late teens, and as chance would have it, got into a fandom where we were using the canon setting, but with all original characters. I didn't write fic using canon characters until I got into BtVS.

But I never, ever thought of fanfic as anything but an end in itself.

I started experimenting with fanfic in my late teens, and as chance would have it, got into a fandom where we were using the canon setting, but with all original characters.

That's interesting. That was Elfquest, right? I've of course read plenty of fic featurig OCs, sometimes without any canon characters, but I've never been in a fandom that does that predominantly.

But I never, ever thought of fanfic as anything but an end in itself.

*nodnod*

Yeah, ElfQuest. Now, some people do write canon-character EQ fic; I've seen it on ff.net. But back in the day, we all created our own tribes and characters, and basically ran things like a big shared universe. Someone would be the editor/coordinator, and keep track of timelines and maps and character sheets, and like that. Most of the fan clubs put out quarterly zines with stories and artwork. The group I was most involved with eventually ended up doing crossovers with several other tribes, and we developed a huge, ten-thousand-year timeline and a map the size of North America showing where everyone was and when everything happened. It was a world-builder's wet dream. Of course, it had its downsides, too; there were feuds and squabbles galore, which too often affected the way stories got written (or didn't get written).

Of course, it had its downsides, too; there were feuds and squabbles galore, which too often affected the way stories got written (or didn't get written).

Yeah, but that's fandom. Actually, that's people. *g*

This shared universe sounds utterly fascinating. Quite an endevour, too.

I had just such an imagination growing up and even as an adult. I wrote fan fic in my head and never realized that was what I was doing. I never, though, felt the least bit compelled to put it up for public consumption on the internet, not even after knowing of fan fic's existence in BtVS/AtS fandom for seven years.

Fan fic didn't interest me. Discussing the shows did. Analyzing their philosophical depths.

I wonder if the people in that blog discussion object to people discussing and analyzing art, literature, and television. Probably not. They probably don't object to the fact that some academics make their living off of analysis and discussion of art, literature, and even television. Such things aren't "violations" of the author, his/her characters, or the fictional world, even when the interpretation of the text veers radically from the author's intentions.

The thing I didn't understand about fan fic before I finally got around to writing it myself for sharing with others is that fan fic *just is* the discussion, interpretation, and analysis of a text. But instead of being in a "non-fictional" essay format, it's in a fictional, narrative format. It has the same capacity for being crap or genius as any literary criticism, for exposing the fan writer's bias, or for exposing the depths of the original text for other fans to see.

These guys are too busy seeing that it's in a "fiction" format and not understanding, as you said, what it's *for*.

There are just some reactions to a text you can't communicate through non-fictional, left-brained essays. They can only be communicated through the emotive, right-brained communication mediums that are fiction, fan art, or poetry.

Someone downthread linked me to a blog post by Henry Jenkins you might find interesting: Fan Fiction as Critical Commentary (http://www.henryjenkins.org/2006/09/fan_fiction_as_critical_commen.html)

The thing I didn't understand about fan fic before I finally got around to writing it myself for sharing with others is that fan fic *just is* the discussion, interpretation, and analysis of a text. But instead of being in a "non-fictional" essay format, it's in a fictional, narrative format.

I totally agree... fanfic is just another form of literary criticism. And that point has come up in that blog several times in the past (well, every point has come up over there before, it's a very circular debate) but usually gets ignored.

I wonder if the people in that blog discussion object to people discussing and analyzing art, literature, and television. Probably not.

Well, of course they argue that analysis and discussion is allowed under copyright while fanfic is not, which makes it badevilwrong, but imho there're plenty of problems with that line of reasoning. First, there's a fair chance that fic might sail under the very same fair use clause that protects crit, parody, etc. The even bigger problem: these quys tend to bring up copyright while at the same time arguing from an ethical/moral viewpoint, which has nothing to do with copyright law.

Reading that discussion will make you gnash your teeth and tear out your hair.

My impression is that some authors believe their copyright entails the right to dictate how the reader engages with their text, and that's just not happening. Never has, only the reader interaction didn't use to be quite as visible before the net.

The business world is all a-buzz over Internet mark II with its two-way communication - no one's gonna get that genie back in the bottle. :)

Yeah, it was a pretty weird moment when I realized maybe not everyone was giving new endings to thing in their head, or putting the characters of stories into new world, or putting themselves into the worlds of stories. The main question it always leaves me asking is: what do those people think about? Are they really think about every day life all the time? If they're not, are they thinking completely in the abstract?

It pretty much is like talking to an alien species, because as much as they can't understand where we're coming from, I can't understand them either. I'm not sure what the point of reading books or watching tv or hearing stories is if you don't in some way make it your own and a part of you.

Yeah, it was a pretty weird moment when I realized maybe not everyone was giving new endings to thing in their head,

Really weird. It had never really occured to me until a few months ago after another one of Lee's rants. It was an epiphany, downright. ;)

Of course I may be completely wrong since I have no idea what goes on in those heads... but I don't really feel like going over there and asking in order to collect more data. I'm pretty sure I would lose my cool after the second or third insult... (They are quick with the ad-hominems, up there on the Moral High Ground.) :P

I'm not sure what the point of reading books or watching tv or hearing stories is if you don't in some way make it your own and a part of you.

It's always been such a big part of my life, I wouldn't want to miss it.

I agree with you and Masq completely here. Those folks really just don't get it at all. I don't write, but I sure do read. I think the first fan fic I ever read was Star Trek..those fanzines that got circulated around before the invention of the internet. To me, as a fan and a reader, fanfic is the continuation and expansion of worlds that I find fascinating and involving. It's the answer to the "but what happens next" questions. I have always had a vivid imagination, and as a kid I spent a lot of time in my own little world. I remember lying in bed making up my own stories about the world...usually involving heroes and romance, with me as the heroine..just call me Mary Sue.
I love that the writers of my favourite shows, like Joss, do get the significance of fanfic.

usually involving heroes and romance, with me as the heroine..just call me Mary Sue.

My 'verse was romance free... I've always been a gen fan at heart, I guess. But the Mary Sue, that's practically a teen prerequisite.

I love that the writers of my favourite shows, like Joss, do get the significance of fanfic.

That's a definite plus. I wonder what Hart Hanson's stance on fic is? Though in a media fandom, I wouldn't feel compelled to go by the creator's wishes in any case, since it's a collaborative effort from the start. But it's nice to know if the creators are okay with it.

We come in peace *ZAAP*

Bwahahaha!!!

When I was three, SuperTed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superted) was my imaginary friend. I wrote what I later realised was fanfiction in my head from a young age, although I didn't hear of it from an outside source until I was 16. My younger sisters often base their imaginary play on television shows, and one of them, when asked to tell me a story recently, told me fanfiction.
These are the actions of small children, who with no outside influence except the source text engaged in fanfiction or fanfic-like activities.

I don't actually write fic for consumption, because I haven't got anything like the discipline required, but yeah, I think the urge to fic is built in.

Oh, here from

metafandom, and the eldest of the sisters mentioned above, the one who told me the story, is seven.

I don't actually write fic for consumption, because I haven't got anything like the discipline required, but yeah, I think the urge to fic is built in.

*nods*
Now the question is just, is it a universal thing, an urge that everybody has? My theory is that some people just don't have this urge... but I need more data to back that up. I need to talk to people from the "Fanfic is stoopid and you're wasting your life, kid!" camp.

(Here via

metafandom)

Did you read Henry Jenkins' recent post, Fan Fiction as Critical Commentary (http://www.henryjenkins.org/2006/09/fan_fiction_as_critical_commen.html)?

I've been feeling really dispirited lately over what seems like a constant influx of derision directed at fanfic. (Random anti-fic nonsense keeps appearing on my flist from unexpected places, the latest being "Colbert Report" and "Song of Ice and Fire" communities, not to mention the ickiness you find over at Fandom Wank.) It seems like the "mainstream" is becoming increasingly aware of fanfiction, but not really understanding what it is or what it's for. (Is it all porn, is it all slash, is it all written by 12 year olds? etc.)

Part of that is plain ignorance (I looked down on fanfic when I first heard about it, too, but my opinion certainly changed when I was exposed to good fic!) but I think you're right that it may be a basic difference in ways of looking at the world. Ever since I can remember, I was making up imaginary worlds, and the building blocks for those worlds were whatever fiction I'd been exposed to. Originally these took the forms of "imaginary games" my brother and I would act out (the jungle gym was the Millennium Falcon, or anything green was Kryptonite and would kill us), or we'd come up with all kinds of stories for our action figures to work out (a Ninja Turtle/Barbie/GI Joe crossover!). When we got older, we stopped playing them out, but the impulse to make up stories is still always running in the background of my brain.

My dad is the opposite, one of those people who just doesn't get it. I've tried quizzing him, trying to figure out how his brain works, if he gets *anything* out of fiction (nearly everything he takes in is non-fiction; I don't think there's *anything* fictional that he really likes, let alone would make up his own stories about). I'd really like to understand how his brain works, just because it is so different from my own experience.

I've heard of Jenkins before of course, but haven't seen this post yet. Thanks for the link, that looks very interesting.

I've been feeling really dispirited lately over what seems like a constant influx of derision directed at fanfic.

Really? If anything, the naysayser bring out the stubborn side in me. ;) It doesn't help that their arguments are all over the place, completely uninformed.

Though, did you read the recent article in the Wall Street Journal about fic writers gone pro? That one was actually rather favourable, properly researched, got its facts mostly straight. Nice change from all the sensationalist look-at-the-freaks!!1! articles. (Okay, it still said that slash is often graphic while failing to mention that so's het... but at least it didn't say slash=graphic sex like they usually do.)

Part of that is plain ignorance (I looked down on fanfic when I first heard about it, too, but my opinion certainly changed when I was exposed to good fic!)

Same here. Therefore I fully understand that initial reaction to fic. When I got online and stumbled over alt.tv.x-files.creative, the thought of amateurs writing stories about the show made me cringe. Then, two weeks later I was bored, got curious, started to read one (fortunately it was a good one) and I was hopelessly lost right away.

My dad is the opposite, one of those people who just doesn't get it. I've tried quizzing him, trying to figure out how his brain works, if he gets *anything* out of fiction (nearly everything he takes in is non-fiction; I don't think there's *anything* fictional that he really likes, let alone would make up his own stories about). I'd really like to understand how his brain works, just because it is so different from my own experience.

My whole family doesn't get it, either. Next family gathering I plan to quizz them on the matter, find out how they interact with text. Because they all like to read/watch fiction, they just react to it in a completely different way from mine. (Don't react at all, from where I'm standing, but that's probably the wrong impression.)

It would be really interesting to hear from the anti-ficcers on Lee's blog on this matter as well, but I find that crowd shows a distict lack of respect toward fic writers; it effectively stifles my desire to go over and just ask them.

I'd love to see a poll on the question of daydreaming and writing fic. It would be interesting to get a wide sampling of people's experience. I definitely daydream and write fic in my head all the time (and have since I as a child). I suspect that's probably the norm, but it would be very interesting to find out.

Oh and here via metafandom. I forgot to mention that.

I briefly thought about a poll, but since my friends list consists of nothing but fic writers/readers (friendsfriends too, I suspect) the result would be way biased. But I have some real life friends who're not the least bit fannishly inclined; I'm thinking about asking them since I'm genuinely curious.

my flist is primarily non-ficcers, with a dash of fic writers/readers thrown in. since i'm endlessly (and unsuccessfully thus far) trying to create a dialog and bridge between the two communities, if you make up a poll, i'd be happy to host it on my lj. or link to it, and tell everyone i know to check it out :)

-bs

Thanks, I might get back to that. Could be interesting. I'm still debating whether to link this post over at Lee's. I'm just a little wary of drawing wank to this journal so I probably won't.

Yeah, I've recently been thinking the same thing, that it's really hard to explain the "why" of fanfic, because either you like making up things about other people's stories, or you don't. If you do, you'll "get" fanfic pretty easily, and if you don't, no amount of explaining will help.

For me, fanfic is more than just fic, it's a way of looking at fiction in general. Yesterday, I was talking to a couple of colleagues about The Three Billygoats Gruff, and I mentioned that I've always thought that the billygoats decided in advance what they'd tell the troll, because if they hadn't, it would have been really cruel of the smaller billygoats to sacrifice their brother like that. One of my colleagues said, "Oh, is that what you think?" (clearly interested) while the other said, "I guess I've never thought that hard about the story."

I've come to realize that some people can read or watch a story and leave it alone afterwards, even if they like it. That there will never be anything going on when the pen is put down or the camera turns the other way.

And I have absolutely no idea how to explain the "why" of fanfic to people like that.

One of my colleagues said, "Oh, is that what you think?" (clearly interested) while the other said, "I guess I've never thought that hard about the story."

Heh. That illustrates it quite nicely. :)

I've come to realize that some people can read or watch a story and leave it alone afterwards, even if they like it. That there will never be anything going on when the pen is put down or the camera turns the other way.

Quite often I can read a story or watch a movie and then move on without giving it much more thought. But there's no emotional connection then. In those cases when a story really resonates for whatever reason, I need more right away. When I watched my first episode of Angel, I got online the same evening and started to hunt for fic.

And I have absolutely no idea how to explain the "why" of fanfic to people like that.

So far, looks like no one has managed that...

I think there are indeed two mind-sets in this debate, and they don't really have much to bridge the gulf.

In ProVerse, it's all about the money. It is perfectly understandable to wish to make money by doing something you enjoy, in this instance, writing. And it is money that *validates* the writing, validates the time and effort and imagination and whatever else goes into the writing. It is, I suppose, the world in which we live, most of the time, where there is an economy and everything has a value and that value is expressed in terms of how much somebody will pay for it. There is also a limited supply of validation, ie money, to be had, and it must therefore be competed for.

Fanworld doesn't have that kind of economy. The validation in Fanworld comes from the participation, the community. We write for pleasure, we share it with other people who take pleasure in the same things, and we establish ourselves within the fannish community through our participation - by writing, or giving feedback, by doing beta work, or producing art or vids or meta, and none of it paid for. In fact, if anything it costs us money. At any rate, money is not the reward, is not the validation. And as for competition? We don't really do that either. Sure, individual writers may measure ourselves against other people, inside our own heads, but on the whole, we collaborate. We understand that there is room for a hundred fictional variations on a single incident from canon, and that we can enjoy all of them and go back to canon and enjoy that too.

I suppose the other half of the argument is that we are 'stealing' from the pro writers. (Hee - can I exempt myself from that, on the grounds that I write RPS these days?) Again, I think the difference between ProVerse and Fanworld explains it: in ProWorld, everything is property, and has a value, and anyone who does anything with My Property is potentially messing with its value, and Damaging Me.
In Fanworld, the whole *point* is the re-imagining, because that is what we *do*. And if someone does it well, then the whole community can be enriched by the sharing. Hell, even when someone does it *badly* the community can end up enriched. For certain rather twisted values of 'enriched'... My icon is, well, an example of this.

But the ProVerse mind-set is not going to understand the values of Fanworld, and ultimately, there isn't really much point trying. We just have to roll our eyes and go back to the fun stuff.

Oh - forgot to say, here via

metafandom

And it is money that *validates* the writing, validates the time and effort and imagination and whatever else goes into the writing.

I think you have a point there, in that some writers might feel that amateurs intruding on their domain *and* giving away for free a product they sweat over, might devalue their work. That's the impression I'm getting from some of the posters on that blog.

But.

...ack, I'm not done but dinner's ready and my presence needed, be back later to write the rest of my reply.

... okay, what I was gonna say before I was rudely interrupted by rl...

And as for competition? We don't really do that either. Sure, individual writers may measure ourselves against other people, inside our own heads, but on the whole, we collaborate. We understand that there is room for a hundred fictional variations on a single incident from canon, and that we can enjoy all of them and go back to canon and enjoy that too.

No unlimited resources... that's a really good point. I completely agree on the economic differences between Fanworld and Proworld. It's just that there's no clean divide between the two worlds since there're plenty of pros who do both. Some, like

rachel_caine don't even use a pseudonym and write both their original novels and their fan fiction under the same name. (I'm citing her because I know she doesn't mind... but there're dozens more.)

Myself, I illustrate kids' books in real life, and in my spare time I do fan art. It's pretty much the same thing, just without any money involved. It would never occur to me to value my fan art any less just because it's unpaid. And there are countless other benefits involved. That makes it even more exasperating to hear those pro writers talk derisively about what we do. To think just in terms of money seems downright pitiful.

And the thing is, I can see where those guys are coming from even though I disagree with them. When you get started out in the world of publishing, they make you pay your dues. It was no fun for me. When you're a struggling artist/writer, a lot of resentment can built up because you feel your work isn't valued. You're expected to hand in produce work samples for free... yeah, no fun. Personally, I think some never get over that even when they've become established and could feel secure in their work. That's my take on it anyway. /psychobabble.

But, like I said, it's not a pro thing in general.

I'd say that the two worlds I've described don't correspond exactly to professional vs amateur writers - as you say, there are some who do both, and there are some amateurs who despise fanfic in the same way and for the same reasons as the anti-fanfic pro writers. It's an attitude thing rather than a status thing... I don't think it's only the people who straddle (or have crossed) the divide who understand the Fanworld state of mind.

It's tempting to describe it as a masculine/feminine divide, and there's much to be said for that, even though there are females in ProVerse and males in Fanworld.

Another thing the ProVerse people tend to forget is that what emerges as published fiction is, of course, selected. And polished and finished. Fanfic on the internet runs the entire gamut from prizewinners to the dregs of the slush pile, because there isn't any limitation at the publishing end. If we looked at *all* the fiction that is submitted to publishers, rather than just the stuff that has made it through the process and been published, there wouldn't be quite such a quality issue, would there?

It's tempting to describe it as a masculine/feminine divide, and there's much to be said for that, even though there are females in ProVerse and males in Fanworld.

It is tempting. I've always been wary to go there, for the reasons you say. But after seing Mark A. York spout off one misogynistic phrase after the other...

What a surprise? A woman fanfictress like Rommel. I think the "We" says it all. We women thieves sisters in arms and all. A defender of stolen crap by a writer of it. Yawn. Such blatant shillery.

I'm telling ya, it's become even more tempting than before to reduce this whole conflict to a gender issue. (I'm not saying it is. That would be way too easy. But I think it's a factor.)

If we looked at *all* the fiction that is submitted to publishers, rather than just the stuff that has made it through the process and been published, there wouldn't be quite such a quality issue, would there?

Exactly!

Another metafandom browser here.

I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that there's daydreamers who do fic, and non-daydreamers who don't. After all, I've never quite "gotten" fanfic, but I daydream near-constantly. It's just that my dreaming and creativity are almost entirely original, rather than trying to do stuff with premade settings and characters. I actually have trouble trying to write other people's works because I've always seen them as a closed circle- there's no point to expand on it, because the work as presented is how it's meant to be. (The only cases where I can understand expanding on it is in AU or post-canon.)

OTOH, I'm not really against ficcing, as long as it's well-written and not trying to make money. I'm just really not into it.

Ah, good, I was hoping to hear from non-fanfic fans.

After all, I've never quite "gotten" fanfic, but I daydream near-constantly. It's just that my dreaming and creativity are almost entirely original, rather than trying to do stuff with premade settings and characters.

Interesting. With me, it's the exact opposite. My daydreams have always been based on either fictional material or reality, no original scenarios that I can think of. Hm, maybe I should pose the question differently... maybe the difference lies in original vs derivative daydreaming. And to complicate it there're probably people who do both, like rahirah said in her comment.

I'll admit that I have had some vaguely canon-inspired daydreams (though most of those were pretty early on in my childhood), but they were always a kind of Mary Sue "me exploring the canon setting" thing. The few fanfic-style things I've done have almost all involved either OCs in the canon, or canon characters transported to a new setting; some aspect of "originality" or change from the setting.

It's difficult for me to understand why someone would stick to writing others' characters and settings when they can make up their own. (Of course, it's also difficult for me to understand why someone would enjoy coffee, so I just chalk it up to different tastes.)

(also here via metafandom)

Well put. I know I have written fic in my head long before I knew what fanfic is.

Same here. It only occured to me after I've discovered and read fic for a while that, hey, that's pretty much what it is.

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Here from Metafandom

reposted with tags fixed

Re: reposted with tags fixed

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Oooh, and addendum

Re: Oooh, and addendum

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