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So, fictionaire...
There is a rather interesting post in ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
life_wo_fanlib linking back to a FFR post that pimps a new multifandom fic / original fiction archive, fictionaire.com. It's a bit of a conundrum. I do like conundrums. ;)
Ficionaire reminds of Fanlib in certain ways, though the MO is very different... no invite spam*, very polite replies to criticism**; when huge problems with the wording of the TOS were pointed out they were fixed in record time.
*[edit: he did advertise in at least three comms, among thembottom_draco, which seems like a strange choice given that his archive currently doesn't allow NC-17 content. "I've been noticing that, with the huge growth in many fandoms (e.g. Harry Potter), there is a lot of demand for finding high quality fan fics of specific types. It seems like that is what you're after here, and sometimes struggling with." link]
**[edit: though one notices that he only replies to certain questions, completely ignoring others, which isn't all that polite.]
I wanted to keep an open mind, but while Scott, the owner, has been very quick replying to comments on the technical aspect of his site, so far he's been steadfastedly ignoring all questions regarding his motivations and past fandom experience, leaving the distinct impression that he's an outsider. The LJ is two days old, and only lists an oddly random assortment of fanfic comms on the watch list. Plus, he never heard of Fanlib which is really only possible if you were either not around at that time, or in a coma.
At this point I'm almost positive that Scott isn't a member of the fic community since he would've had enough time to answer the curious questions of "Dude, who are you?" Also, sentences like "This site stems from an admiration of fan fiction culture in general" link don't really sound to me like they're coming from one of us (but do sound like something Chris Williams might say).
"What has bothered me, especially recently, is the primitive nature of most fan fiction communities. The most popular ones are designed for mass numbers of people, which makes it increasingly difficult to get close-knit communities going; meanwhile the smaller, tighter ones erect huge barriers-to-entry for potentially great new members who wind up posting elsewhere."link
Not sure I get what he's talking about here. I just can't see the problems he's attempting to fix because imho the very nature of LJ allows for just the flexibility to have large, accessible communities as well as close-knit ones within the same space, with as much overlap as you like. Now, what LJ doesn't allow for is the posting of longer stories in one place, so that would be something where I can see room for improvement. Although no pressing need, since the current habit of linking to longer stories archived offsite works well enough. *shrug*
Anyway, like others at life_wo_fanlib, I can't get past the question of Why? A multifandom archive is a huge undertaking, incredibly time-consuming, frustrating, thankless work. Expensive, too. Even people deeply immersed in the fic community usually aren'tmasochistic altruistic enough to attempt that, certainly not on their own (The planned OTW archive has dozens of volunteers on its staff afaik). Running a fandom- or pairing specific archive is work enough even without the random Hacker attack :P.
Scott mentions other people involved in his archive, techs specifially (which makes sense because it sounds like too much work for just one person), and I keep getting back to the same question... what's the motivation? So far, the only thing I can think of is the promise of future profit.
Okay, so here's what I'm seeing. Pure speculation, I'm just jotting it down for the record, and because thoughts often make more sense if I put them in writing. And it's not just regarding Fictionaire, it's more a general observation on Web-two-oh and the unharnessed potential and yet-unreaked profits inherent in That Thing We Do.
The impression I'm getting is that ever since fanfic has come to the awareness of the mainstream, we're looked at from the outside by entrepeneurs with a gleam in the eye akin to that you might've seen during the Californian gold rush. I think that businesspeople look at us and see a potential for profit. They have no idea how to get to the profit, but they know they need an in, stake a claim, figure out the details later.
Ha, stake a claim, that image came while I was typing and that really describes best the impression I'm getting. And I got a feeling we're going to see more of the sort in the future... after all fanfic is one of the few areas that hasn't been commercialized yet and we can't have that.
I considered locking this post, because, really, it's entirely possible that there no ulterior motives behind this, just a love for fiction so great that someone would go to the trouble of setting up a multifandom archive and just have the work be its own reward. With all the technical problems that come with it. And the potential for wank. And the legal uncertainties. And the server costs.
Yeah.
eta: text of a previous, cached version of the site.: [eta again: ah, now it's been replaced by a later version]
life_wo_fanlib linking back to a FFR post that pimps a new multifandom fic / original fiction archive, fictionaire.com. It's a bit of a conundrum. I do like conundrums. ;)Ficionaire reminds of Fanlib in certain ways, though the MO is very different... no invite spam*, very polite replies to criticism**; when huge problems with the wording of the TOS were pointed out they were fixed in record time.
*[edit: he did advertise in at least three comms, among them
bottom_draco, which seems like a strange choice given that his archive currently doesn't allow NC-17 content. "I've been noticing that, with the huge growth in many fandoms (e.g. Harry Potter), there is a lot of demand for finding high quality fan fics of specific types. It seems like that is what you're after here, and sometimes struggling with." link]**[edit: though one notices that he only replies to certain questions, completely ignoring others, which isn't all that polite.]
I wanted to keep an open mind, but while Scott, the owner, has been very quick replying to comments on the technical aspect of his site, so far he's been steadfastedly ignoring all questions regarding his motivations and past fandom experience, leaving the distinct impression that he's an outsider. The LJ is two days old, and only lists an oddly random assortment of fanfic comms on the watch list. Plus, he never heard of Fanlib which is really only possible if you were either not around at that time, or in a coma.
At this point I'm almost positive that Scott isn't a member of the fic community since he would've had enough time to answer the curious questions of "Dude, who are you?" Also, sentences like "This site stems from an admiration of fan fiction culture in general" link don't really sound to me like they're coming from one of us (but do sound like something Chris Williams might say).
"What has bothered me, especially recently, is the primitive nature of most fan fiction communities. The most popular ones are designed for mass numbers of people, which makes it increasingly difficult to get close-knit communities going; meanwhile the smaller, tighter ones erect huge barriers-to-entry for potentially great new members who wind up posting elsewhere."link
Not sure I get what he's talking about here. I just can't see the problems he's attempting to fix because imho the very nature of LJ allows for just the flexibility to have large, accessible communities as well as close-knit ones within the same space, with as much overlap as you like. Now, what LJ doesn't allow for is the posting of longer stories in one place, so that would be something where I can see room for improvement. Although no pressing need, since the current habit of linking to longer stories archived offsite works well enough. *shrug*
Anyway, like others at life_wo_fanlib, I can't get past the question of Why? A multifandom archive is a huge undertaking, incredibly time-consuming, frustrating, thankless work. Expensive, too. Even people deeply immersed in the fic community usually aren't
Scott mentions other people involved in his archive, techs specifially (which makes sense because it sounds like too much work for just one person), and I keep getting back to the same question... what's the motivation? So far, the only thing I can think of is the promise of future profit.
Okay, so here's what I'm seeing. Pure speculation, I'm just jotting it down for the record, and because thoughts often make more sense if I put them in writing. And it's not just regarding Fictionaire, it's more a general observation on Web-two-oh and the unharnessed potential and yet-unreaked profits inherent in That Thing We Do.
The impression I'm getting is that ever since fanfic has come to the awareness of the mainstream, we're looked at from the outside by entrepeneurs with a gleam in the eye akin to that you might've seen during the Californian gold rush. I think that businesspeople look at us and see a potential for profit. They have no idea how to get to the profit, but they know they need an in, stake a claim, figure out the details later.
Ha, stake a claim, that image came while I was typing and that really describes best the impression I'm getting. And I got a feeling we're going to see more of the sort in the future... after all fanfic is one of the few areas that hasn't been commercialized yet and we can't have that.
I considered locking this post, because, really, it's entirely possible that there no ulterior motives behind this, just a love for fiction so great that someone would go to the trouble of setting up a multifandom archive and just have the work be its own reward. With all the technical problems that come with it. And the potential for wank. And the legal uncertainties. And the server costs.
Yeah.
eta: text of a previous, cached version of the site.: [eta again: ah, now it's been replaced by a later version]
Fan Fiction and Original Stories at Fictionaire.comMarketing speak, how I hate thee.
* Write fan fiction with flair in rich text or HTML and easily update your stories.
* Track your popularity with comprehensive fan fiction statistics.
* Leave wall messages and chat up other fictionaires
* Benefit from a powerful feedback system for fan fiction stories.
* Pose custom questions to readers - what should happen next, perhaps?
* Network with fan fiction authors on the Fictionaire social network.
* Share your stories, gain notoriety, and meet new friends
* Join the craze! Includes special Harry Potter fan fiction abilities!
Will your fiction be here?
Fictionaire launches in the coming weeks. Don't miss out on launch giveaways for fan fiction enthusiasts!
no subject
I am rather ambivalent of using lj as an archive, it’s great if you know the writers or you gets a rec from others. But if you want to browse around, and looking for example a particularly character in a fandom, you don’t have any really practical way to do that. You can’t often not use Google, because many of the user accounts forbids seek sites as google or yahoo to catalogue them
no subject
LJ isn't the perfect archive, but it works exceptionally well in conjunction with other sites IMHO. You can archive longfic offsite, and as to locating specific fics I've found del.icio.us very useful. That, and browsing my way from recs list to recs list.
I think that it’s possible to make a good fanfiction site, even you don’t are personally invested in fanfic, if you interest instead is to build a web-site that have as goal to create a long-term viable business, and knows and respect it users.
You know, I asked myself that... where's the harm. If they offer a good product, why not use it. Except I'm not even sure they can make a good product with the obvious lack of knowledge about the very community they're catering too (The guy pimped his squeaky clean, smut free archive at a comm for pr0ny Draco slash). Honestly, I think they have no idea what they'd be getting into.
I think they saw the (financial) success of both ffn and LJ and decided to offer fan writers what is essentially a combination of the features of the two. Which actually doesn't sound like a bad idea at first. Just that fans have always been perfectly capable to create their own archive space, and I think that LJ *works*... okay, not least because this is where everybody is hanging out. The last thing we need is another social networking site for people to wander off to, making it harder to keep track of everybody.
That, plus I found some of the phrasings in his pimps kind of condescending... calling existing fan communities primitive, or pointing out that finding good fic is something fans are currently struggling with.
I think that fanfic and business don't go together, and shouldn't. The commercialization of fanfic is a slippery slope and I think it should be avoided for all the reasons that were discussed during the Fanlib debacle.
no subject
The reason for why I don’t have so much against (slightly) commercial website is that I have an utopian idea, of a site that could go on, so you could find your find fanfic stories in your fandom, 20 years after the tv-show ended. And that the site, did not have to depended on a little group of dedicated fans, who could quiet naturally lose interest in the website after some time.
no subject
no subject
I'm waiting with bated breath for Scott to answer those questions about who he is and why he's got the sudden desire to archive. A tiny little part of me wonders if it's not Fanlib trying to get in through the back door. Sentences like this... Don't miss out on launch giveaways for fan fiction enthusiasts! ... really sounds a lot like them. Okay, it's probably not. But the resemblance is there.
no subject
People have different wishes for sorting and searching, and there's hassles of accessibility--should everyone have access to everything, or is some stuff members-only or even some-members-only (sorted by age for fanfic--but a law firm might have "attorneys only" docs.)
It'd be a great coding project... but the authors would want some assurance that it won't dissolve when the main coding team gets hired by a law firm or city library.
---
And the planned archive at OTW isn't based on "gee, we wanna have a multifandom archive!" It was based on "dammit, we're tired of all these archives changing the rules on us... we need one run by people who know what fandom needs, and I guess that's us." It's not sparked by altruism--the people working on it want a stable archive for their own selfish reasons.
no subject
Actually, yeah, it would be a satisfying coding problem to sink your teeth into. And I could imagine enough writers would come and play even if there wasn't a guarantee that it'd last beyond the initial project... I mean, fanfic'ers are usually a helpful and accommodating bunch, when we're not being talked down to.
It's not sparked by altruism--the people working on it want a stable archive for their own selfish reasons.
Oh, I know. Then again, pure altruism doesn't really exist (well, arguably). But, I mean, archiving is such time-consuming and thankless work - a lot of the times you hear back from people it's because they're unhappy for some reason, while one barely takes notice of an archive running flawlessly. And the scale of what OTW is attempting is just staggering so, while I think it's a really good idea, I admit I'll duck whenever there's a call for volunteers. But I'm glad that people are devoting their time to it. The idea of it is fascinating.
no subject
nitpicking hecklersbeta-testers in fandom.But the authors would want to know that's the reason for the site--it tells them that the structure could go through occasional large changes, and that minor changes will happen on a regular basis, so don't get too attached to any one feature, and so on.
And if it's a commercial venture, designed to make money from ads--again, we can deal with that, but have to think about how it affects what we can post and say. (Even without sexually explicit fic... can you post a story about Dr. House-hates-Pepsi next to a Pepsi ad?)
I'm very happy with OTW's approach, and I trust the people involved--I know that what they want in an archive is essentially what I want: a stable place to host fics of all types, and navigability that makes it easy to find what you like and skip what you don't. And I know they want that as fans--as people who'll be actively using the archive they want to build. (Or rather, the archive they want built, and have given up on hoping that anyone else is going to build it.)
The Fictionaire thing... he's not saying why he's making it. I don't trust claims of altruism, or "I love fannish culture so I thought I'd make an archive/social network site for it." There's a long track record of non-fen botching fannish projects because they don't know what the important features are (like, umm... no word counts on the stories? No warnings for squickable concepts?).
And this one... umm, he needs a beta reader.
"Star Trek Atlantis" is one of the TV show options.
no subject
I came, saw, lol'd.
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Is this where we put the famous "Lubricus" and "Divestio Totalis" spells?
no subject
And now I wonder whether someone's written that fic already. *googles* ahem, okay.
Hey, the old pages are all still there:
You have to prepare for that debut novel somehow!
*cringe*
What is the key ingredient in popular fan fiction? What drives authors to produce wonderful new stories, and readers to gobble them up glowingly? Interactivity! Readers love continuing their favorite stories via fan fiction, chatting all the way. Authors, of course, craze the well-deserved attention.
Ouch. It's just so... you know...so, argh. He sounds like Frasier Crane talking slang. The whole language of that site is quite interesting... insight in how they think that we think.
I mulled it over some and I don't think, icky profit issues aside, that outsiders are ever going to manage to produce a successful fanfic site... for the simple reason that they don't get how fandom works. I think what does work is what happened in LJ's case... where there was a platform provided, which fans then shaped to their likes. Everything else is invariably going to turn out like Fanlib and this thing here. No word count or warnings? Eh.
I saw your comment in his journal - good advice but I have a feeling it'll be ignored. I was actually curious to hear his replies.