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Aaah, yes. Nothing like a little kerfuffle to clear the air. For those out of the loop, I had a little run in with

bonesffrants, which was bound to happen because the place, I gotta admit, rubs me entirely the wrong way.

I love the creative chaos that is fandom. I dislike being told by other fans what I can and cannot do. It gets in the way of the whole anarchy thing we got going. Hence my general problem with places like that rant comm, where some folks have very clear ideas what a good fic must look like.

Which brings me to a thing that's been bugging me for months, not just limited to that comm: I keep hearing people say that teenagers shouldn't write Bones fic because their fic sucks... really, I read that so often, without anybody disagreeing, that one could almost get the impression that's the prevailing opinion.

Quoting - because I'm lazy like that - from a mail I wrote to one of the mods at ffrants (who btw was very reasonable and friendly and I'd like to emphasize that my beef is not with her personally):
"Just one thing: I saw someone post in the header to their fic on ffn something along the lines of, "I wasn't sure if I should post this because I'm kinda scared of bonesffrants." Someone else agreed. And this sort of thing honestly bothers me, because the deal with Sturgeon's law is that it's a package deal. We need all the crap to get the five to ten percent that's good. I think that thing you guys do can smother creativity, like when someone happens to stumble over it who hasn't got a thick skin. And many writers are awefully thin-skinned, not just the teenies. This is why I care about this so strongly.

Well, apart from that there's the whole issue of how fanfic can help teenagers become more literate and hone their writing skills which is why they shouldn't be discouraged no matter how much their dreadful high-school teen fik makes you want to spork your brain out. Ten years from now their stories might kick our collective butts." [eta: btw, not meaning to imply that teenagers' fic in general isn't good - in Bones fandom alone I've seen some very young writers who write kick-ass fic that makes me deeply jealous. :)]

Henry Jenkins, author of 'Convergence Culture' and 'Textual Poachers' wrote an interesting article on the subject: In Defense of Crud

In the end, no one's holding a gun to anyone's head to make them read stories they dislike or find offensive. I don't know about you but I can usually tell within the first paragraph if a fic is my cup of tea. With badfic, I don't even need the first paragraph, the summary will do.

And while it makes me boggle on occasion (ok, often) how some poorly-spelled, OOC fic at the pit gets 250 reviews while the beautifully crafted story right next to it gets only 10 which seems quite unfair... it's not like these two stories are in direct competition with each other. They got different target groups and fulfil different functions. I certainly know which one I'll read, but there's no reason to wish for the other story to go away. Others must've liked it well enough to comment. The interwebz is huge, there’s enough room for all.

No more meta for at least a week; I haven't even read fanfic in days.
***Oh, oh, also... I don't remember if I linked to this already. I found it in the comments of

lim's fantastic meta vid Us: Also a meta vid, but a totally different approach. *g* Check it out: I put you there. It's BtVS but since it's very, very meta it's probably fun even if you're not in the fandom. (By the way, can someone tell me how I get an imeem vid to display in full screen?)

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bonesffrants is just plain mean. I only joined it because I saw one author appeared to be very upset by being sporked there and I was curious about what was being said. Like you said, no one forces anyone to read anything so I've never really understood bad fic lists or comms dedicated merely to finding bad fic. I think it's far more constructive to try to collate lists of good fic rather than wasting time on the bad. For those people who spend all their time frothing at the mouth at

bonesffrants, I feel like telling them that no one forced them to write the fic and if they feel that strongly, they should just write their own fic that says what it was they wanted to see instead of criticising someone else who was writing out what they wanted to see. :P

It's posts like this one (http://community.livejournal.com/bonesffrants/17299.html) that made me determined never to post Bones fic to a comm anymore. The anti-Brennan/Booth sentiment is quite strong and there's almost a perception that simply because Brennan/Booth is a relatively dominant ship that any fic for it must be crap and the only reason people read the fic and write nice things is because they like Brennan/Booth rather than on the merits of the fic itself. It's kind of offensive and upsetting. It's the same people I've seen over at TWoP bashing the pairing as well and I feel like saying: "Live and let live." I never try to force people to like my pairings, equally I do not try to discourage people from their pairings but clearly not everyone holds the same opinion :P

Like you said, no one forces anyone to read anything so I've never really understood bad fic lists or comms dedicated merely to finding bad fic.

Yeah, I don't understand the logic... I heard people say they were so offended by a fic that they need the place to rant. Not reading the story sounds like the more logical solution. And, sorry, but when a story comes with the warning "character bashing" in the author's note (which was where I hit the back button because I hate character bashing) and people go ahead and read it anyway, why on earth do they go to a rant comm afterwards to complain that there was character bashing in the fic? Unless they read it in order to have rant fodder.

I think it's far more constructive to try to collate lists of good fic rather than wasting time on the bad.

Wordy McWordcakes.

It's posts like this one that made me determined never to post Bones fic to a comm anymore.

You're not the first one to say that. And it just sucks. I like your fic. I'm sure plenty others at the comms would like it, too. How is scaring people from posting in public improving the quality of the fic in the fandom, one wonders.

I heard people say they were so offended by a fic that they need the place to rant. Not reading the story sounds like the more logical solution. And, sorry, but when a story comes with the warning "character bashing" in the author's note (which was where I hit the back button because I hate character bashing) and people go ahead and read it anyway, why on earth do they go to a rant comm afterwards to complain that there was character bashing in the fic? Unless they read it in order to have rant fodder.

Some people just like ranting, I guess.

I have, on rare occasions, criticized a fic by name -- but I've done it in my own lj, because doing it in a more public venue feels to me kind of like coming over to someone's house for the express purpose of telling them that their baby is ugly. The other thing is, it's almost always good fic that I find myself criticizing, because bad fic doesn't bother me in the same way. Bad fic is just . . . out there, and there's always going to be more of it; criticizing it is like shooting fish in a barrel. There's no real sport in it. But the good stuff that could be great if there weren't something about it that doesn't quite work, or the great stuff that unfortunately showcases what I think is a fandom-wide flaw or unfortunate trend -- that's what usually moves me to commentary.

That comm doesn't just have problems with badfic; some posters have an extremely narrow view of what makes good fanfic.

I have, on rare occasions, criticized a fic by name -- but I've done it in my own lj, because doing it in a more public venue feels to me kind of like coming over to someone's house for the express purpose of telling them that their baby is ugly.

*g* apt comparison. Yeah, I think that's a problem here. Public venue. It's a locked comm but Bones fandom is way too small for them to fly under the radar and the chances of an author finding out are pretty high (unlike fanficrants, which it's modelled after, I think I read... and fanficrants is still a major sponsor of fandom_wank.)

It's not like I never indulged in some pointing-and-laughing at badfic... I'm pretty sure I have. Badfic can be frikking funny. I found babymimi (http://www.fanfiction.net/~babymimi)'s intentional badfic so hilarious that I could barely read through the tears ;). But it is better kept to the privacy of one's journal where the writer really has to go out of their way to find it.

The other thing is, it's almost always good fic that I find myself criticizing, because bad fic doesn't bother me in the same way.

Yes, exactly. I mean, we've done our fair share of criticizing fic at BBF and as I wrote this I've been pondering whether this makes me a hypocrite. But like you say, it's a completely different animal if you discuss the merits and flaws of a good fic / rec with caveats, or if you pick one just for the purpose of bashing it in a public place.

There's no real sport in it.

*nodnod*

I never post fic to comms, now, and the only time you'll see one is if the mod (as happened recently)asked to archive it. I won't read fic that starts off with lengthy author's notes---I'm already bored!

My reaction to the criticism of my first friend for writing, and the second friend, for reccing, was, I admit characteristic of me. Although I don't like Booth slash at all, I was impelled to write one---a remix of first friend's fic (with her blessing). Then the second friend told me to post it to a bones slash comm. I had to tell her, "There's the whole thing where I don't go to comms!"

And of course, after writing Booth and Brennan friendship, I was so annoyed at the bashing that I put 'em together.

My reaction to the criticism of my first friend for writing, and the second friend, for reccing, was, I admit characteristic of me. Although I don't like Booth slash at all, I was impelled to write one---a remix of first friend's fic (with her blessing).

I hear you. A stubborn little part inside me imagined writing a pregnant!Brennan fic where in a subplot Booth, Zack, and Hodgins make out like crazy. Just out of spite. (But on second thought I'll stick to my earlier idea of a Bones/NCIS genfic, that's easier to pull off.)

I'm very curious to read both your remix and the original story. Haven't read either yet because I didn't want the wank to color my reading... that's kinda like eating when you're stressed.

And of course, after writing Booth and Brennan friendship, I was so annoyed at the bashing that I put 'em together.

Hee. Took me by surprise, too. I loved the ending, by the way. Particularly since, as it was yours, a B/B ending *wasn't* predictable. Loved the whole fic, and should have commented more but I had one of them deadlines that pop up from time to time...

Oh, hell, now I'll have to write a fic where Cam gets preggers by Zack.

I read your remix fic and liked it. Since I'm friends with Annie, I know the whole story and I can't believe the immaturity of people.

Don't like a particular pairing, don't read it. It's that simple.

Which is the other story you're referencing? I love your writing and in fact, I keep meaning to friend you if that's ok.

sweptawaybayou wrote a pre-series Booth-in-the-Army.I didn't read it until Annie got all tied up in knots, and even then didn't get much farther than the introductory note before being riven by the remix idea.

What's so funny is that I don't like slashy Booth and the idea of reading Booth/Hodgins gives me acid reflux. But I don't care what people write.

Friend away, I rarely post locked posts, and such.

I know Snow's story. I think it's one of the best things she's ever written. I actually meant the B/B you wound up writing as a reaction to the other idiocy that's out there.

I really don't understand why people why feel the need to judge stories they haven't even read.

I know! At least I read a couple of Annie's before I told her I couldn't get it.

The B/B is...oh, hell..."Refuse to be Comforted" and it's in my Memories under "Bones".

IMO, folks should write what they want/need/have to write. If it's not good, folks probably won't finish it; if it's good/very good/great, then folks will rec it.

I don't like the idea of telling anyone that they shouldn't/mustn't/can't write because of their age - or any other characteristic.

If it's not good, folks probably won't finish it; if it's good/very good/great, then folks will rec it.

Yup. And if they don't like it and finish it anyway, it's really their problem. Not rocket science, that.

Usually you can tell right away if a story is for you, anyway. I've read only one Bones fic that started so promising that I put it in my potential-rec folder and printed it out (multi-chapter!) to find that the author lost track of the plot near the end. It was a very ambitious story, just the plotholes got so huge that the second half would've required a complete rewrite, and I couldn't finish it. Like Debra said, that sort of thing is kind of exasperating... partly because of the time invested reading, but more because of the wasted potential. (And I didn't feedback because how do you say, "Hi, you don't know me, I think your story could be great if you just rewrote the last ten chapters.")

I don't like the idea of telling anyone that they shouldn't/mustn't/can't write because of their age - or any other characteristic.

Oh man, don't get me started. I'm starting to get an allergic reaction any time someone says that 12-year-olds shouldn't write Bones fic. Who do they think they are? Man, be glad that some kids actually do something creative with their time. And I've heard from many folks in fandom whose kids are writing fanfic as well how you can see them develop their own writing voice over time. That's fantastic. And to write them an acidic review that could turn them off writing... yeah. I don't get it.

Also, this notion that concrit is for weaklings, and honesty is more important... *twitch* Dudes and dudettes, those two actually don't have to be mutually exclusive.

And the funny thing is that I always thought of myself as something of an elitist. Huh.

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