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I read some excellent fic this last week. Good week for fic. As a result I'm feeling the Angel love, every bit as much as when I watched my first ep. Good to see that's not fading anytime soon.
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tkp has an interesting post on concrit which pretty much mirrors my own thoughts on the subject. I also agree that giving concrit (for me) is in large parts motivated by selfishness. (Unsolicited crit, anyway - beta'ing for a friend because they asked, now that's a different matter. That's more about helping someone out imho.)
I'd say selfishness is one of the reasons I give feedback period. Surely it's far from the only reason, but if I find a story I like, it's in my interest as a reader to motivate the author so maybe she'll write more of the kind. Even back when I was a lurker, I made sure to send feedback for every story I really liked. It's just common sense, all social aspects aside. (It's also fun.)
I don't offer concrit much, mostly due to time constraints (because, man, it is time consuming). Sometimes though I find a story that would be right up my alley, just my kind of crack, if it weren't for [annoying recurring grammar/characterization/punctuation mistakes]. In those cases where these mistakes are on the surface and easily fixable, I'm itching to mail the writer about it. The concrit's purpose would not be to help a writer... I want to get better fanfic out of the deal. But since those two largely overlap, who cares if it's not entirely altruistic.
Of course the question ever remains how well the critique will be received. I used to just blurt out my suggestions, but after a few years in the fandom, I learned and now I'll ask a writer first if they're interested in detailed crit. Not so much to spare their feelings, but rather to avoid wasting time.
Actually I've been lousy with feedbacking recently, but I can blame work. *blames work*
***
I handed in the second of three projects yesterday, spent a few hours biting my nails, and got an email - they like it. Such a relief, I can't tell you. I slaved over that thing, I thought it was very good, but you never know. I'm really, really glad. Now I need one more week to finish that last project, then I'll have a week or two off.
Also, one of the books I illustrated years ago is part of a license deal for some kind of, I guess, audio book. Normally that wouldn't concern me since I provided just the artwork, not the text. But they're using my book cover for the CD cover. That tickles me pink. I really like that cover, and the book is out of print, so, really nice to see the cover back in use.
***
Link I found in my bookmarks: So You Want To Learn Japanese. totally tongue-in-cheek, not to be taken seriously. But not that far-fetched either:
Politeness depends on many things, such as age of the speaker, age of the person being spken to, time of day, zodiac sign, blood type, sex, whether they are Grass or Rock Pokemon type, color of pants, and so on. For an example of Politness Levels in action, see the example below.
Japanese Teacher: Good morning, Harry.
Harry: Good Morning.
Japanese Classmates: (gasps of horror and shock)
***
I owe half a dozen people email. Sigh. *blames work*
tkp has an interesting post on concrit which pretty much mirrors my own thoughts on the subject. I also agree that giving concrit (for me) is in large parts motivated by selfishness. (Unsolicited crit, anyway - beta'ing for a friend because they asked, now that's a different matter. That's more about helping someone out imho.)I'd say selfishness is one of the reasons I give feedback period. Surely it's far from the only reason, but if I find a story I like, it's in my interest as a reader to motivate the author so maybe she'll write more of the kind. Even back when I was a lurker, I made sure to send feedback for every story I really liked. It's just common sense, all social aspects aside. (It's also fun.)
I don't offer concrit much, mostly due to time constraints (because, man, it is time consuming). Sometimes though I find a story that would be right up my alley, just my kind of crack, if it weren't for [annoying recurring grammar/characterization/punctuation mistakes]. In those cases where these mistakes are on the surface and easily fixable, I'm itching to mail the writer about it. The concrit's purpose would not be to help a writer... I want to get better fanfic out of the deal. But since those two largely overlap, who cares if it's not entirely altruistic.
Of course the question ever remains how well the critique will be received. I used to just blurt out my suggestions, but after a few years in the fandom, I learned and now I'll ask a writer first if they're interested in detailed crit. Not so much to spare their feelings, but rather to avoid wasting time.
Actually I've been lousy with feedbacking recently, but I can blame work. *blames work*
***
I handed in the second of three projects yesterday, spent a few hours biting my nails, and got an email - they like it. Such a relief, I can't tell you. I slaved over that thing, I thought it was very good, but you never know. I'm really, really glad. Now I need one more week to finish that last project, then I'll have a week or two off.
Also, one of the books I illustrated years ago is part of a license deal for some kind of, I guess, audio book. Normally that wouldn't concern me since I provided just the artwork, not the text. But they're using my book cover for the CD cover. That tickles me pink. I really like that cover, and the book is out of print, so, really nice to see the cover back in use.
***
Link I found in my bookmarks: So You Want To Learn Japanese. totally tongue-in-cheek, not to be taken seriously. But not that far-fetched either:
Politeness depends on many things, such as age of the speaker, age of the person being spken to, time of day, zodiac sign, blood type, sex, whether they are Grass or Rock Pokemon type, color of pants, and so on. For an example of Politness Levels in action, see the example below.
Japanese Teacher: Good morning, Harry.
Harry: Good Morning.
Japanese Classmates: (gasps of horror and shock)
***
I owe half a dozen people email. Sigh. *blames work*
no subject
***
Congrats!
And congrats! I had no idea you were a professional illustrator; I should've guessed it. With skills like yours you best be getting paid!
***
That bit on Japanese sounds like what I was trying to say about the nuances in Russian. Though of course I've heard Japanese is far more nuanced.
no subject
*iz shocked*
Bahaha! Seriously, I'm glad I'm not the only one who wants to get something out of con crit. I don't feel quite the same way about plain old positive fb; on some level I'm possibly thinking "ooh, if I encourage the author, maybe she'll write more!"--but mostly I just feel it's politeness to tell someone when I've enjoyed something they've created.
Oh, certainly. I mainly focused on the selfish aspect because that's definitely a factor for me and hee, I think one that might get glazed over easily. But of course there's also the part where it just feels like the right thing to do, feedback being the only pay a fan writer gets. And the part where it's fun to interact and discuss the story some more. And sometimes a story just touches you beyond the mere consuming aspect, and you want to delve into that some more.
Actually 'Five ways NFA probably didn't end' is that kind of story that made me think, and I'm a bit irked that timing and work kept me from joining the discussion. Because this kind of story - highly technical and focused on style - is normally not the kind that speaks to me, I think because the structure draws too much of my attention and keeps me from losing myself in the story. I'm interested in finding out why this one worked for me (because it did, it just drew me in) while my general approach to fic is... hm, more escapist, not intellectual. If that makes sense.
That bit on Japanese sounds like what I was trying to say about the nuances in Russian.
Yes! Your comment had prompted me to look up that essay again. It sounds similar.
A prof pointed
out at the time we were reading it that Russian really really lends
itself to that. In some languages there's stuff like a formal "you" and
informal "you", but in Russain there're whole sets of different ways to
say things depending on how intimate your are with whom you're talking
to.
That's interesting. I wasn't aware that Russian has these nuances too. I studied the language once but only at a rather basic evening-class level; we never got any kind of in-depth look and I've forgotten it all. I don't even remember how they do formal speech, if they do it.
In German we have the formal and informal 'you', but I don't think the usage is complex. The only hurdle is the part where you have to decide which to use when meeting a new person... which can lead to some flailing. Sometimes I simply can't tell.
Though of course I've heard Japanese is far more nuanced.
Japanese is insane. The good thing is that Japanese people are aware of the insanity and cut foreigners a lot of slack. When we learned sonkeigo (polite form) our teacher told us we could forget it again after the test for no one would expect us to use it correctly and besides, many young Japanese people can't use it properly either.
Japanese has over half a dozen words for 'I' and 'you', but you can, like, never use them because that's really rude. And you never say a thing directly because that's considered rude... while Germans have little patience for that and no talent whatsoever to read between the lines. English is somewhere in the middle, I think.
It's a little wonder communication is possible at all... but I think it's fascinating how the mentality is reflected in the language.
And congrats! I had no idea you were a professional illustrator; I should've guessed it. With skills like yours you best be getting paid!
Thank you. I'm glad I'm getting paid for it as it is the only thing I know to do. :)
no subject
It's funny, because that kind of story was not really my thing either, and it's not why I write fanfic--I'm definitely all for the escapism in fandom. Most of my short pieces recently, though, have been on the "intellectual" end of the spectrum, just because it's fun to try them out. That can sometimes lead to getting lost in the intellectual aspects--so while smartening up the style, metaphor, theme, etc, I'm dumbing down the plot, characterizations, etc. ... which is why I'm so pleased to hear it drew you in. It didn't some people, which I completely understand, but I'm so glad it did for you. And thanks!
That's interesting. I wasn't aware that Russian has these nuances too. I studied the language once but only at a rather basic evening-class level; we never got any kind of in-depth look and I've forgotten it all. I don't even remember how they do formal speech, if they do it.
Well, I've never taken Russain; this was just what the Russain prof of my Dostoevsky class kept telling us. In Russain, it's not a completely different form for everything, as you seem to be saying it is in Japanese, but there are a whole set of words and phrases that you would only use with intimates. English has that too--we talk familiarly with friends and more formally with strangers, but in Russain the difference is far greater and much more pronounced. And much more offensive if you use it in the wrong way.
The good thing is that Japanese people are aware of the insanity and cut foreigners a lot of slack.
That IS nice! Some cultures can be so picky about foreigners trying to speak their language. In France, everyone seemed to be laughing at me no matter what language I used.
while Germans have little patience for that and no talent whatsoever to read between the lines. English is somewhere in the middle, I think.
Oh, interesting! Makes me wish I'd made the bank guy in my story talk a different language...He could've spoke Romansch, then no one would have any clue what he's saying.
It's a little wonder communication is possible at all
I always am a little awed by it too.
This discussion is so interesting to me!
(belated reply...)
Now that's good to know! I found another story of yours, "Another One Like It Tomorrow", on ffn. Are you still updating? (I have what you could call a Groundhog Day kink. *g*)
That can sometimes lead to getting lost in the intellectual aspects--so while smartening up the style, metaphor, theme, etc, I'm dumbing down the plot, characterizations, etc. ... which is why I'm so pleased to hear it drew you in. It didn't some people, which I completely understand, but I'm so glad it did for you.
Like Barb said somewhere... there's this emphasis on form and language, but it's also (even more so) about themes and motifs. There's something about the way these fragments of little episodes and situations are repeated and mixed up. Actually I think the story started to really click for me with the first iteration when recognition hit. The language from then on translated into images and emotions. Not always, a few lines were too jarring. But it works amazingly well. Very interesting reading experience.
That IS nice! Some cultures can be so picky about foreigners trying to speak their language. In France, everyone seemed to be laughing at me no matter what language I used.
Hey, that's exactly what happened to me. My first and last attempt to speak that language. :p
Oh, interesting! Makes me wish I'd made the bank guy in my story talk a different language...He could've spoke Romansch, then no one would have any clue what he's saying.
The things you learn... I actually had to look up Romansch; I had no idea they have a fourth language in Switzerland. But anyway, if you were going for smarmy with Ubel, you definitely succeeded. ;)
I've been meaning to ask, do you speak German? (Just out of curiosity)
Your post about authorial intent is interesting! Yet more food for thought. I shall bookmark it and check out all the comments once my work is done, which should be... uh, mid-week (yay).
Re: (belated reply...)
I didn't know Switzerland had 4 languages either until I started doing research for Best Souvenir. And no, I don't speak German. Well, I can say I love you and count to ten and sing O Christmas Tree, but that's all ;o)
Good luck on your work!