astridv: grmpf

astridv (

astridv) wrote,
@ 2011-05-06 03:11 pm UTC

Entry tags:	leverage, rant
Crossposts:	http://astridv.livejournal.com/217608.html

grmpf

Stuff I learned these recent days: seems like it's perfectly okay to bash and deride a character because he's an alcoholic. That's good to know. (Hai fandom, alcoholism is actually an illness. Your sensitivity overwhelms me, kthxbai.)

Wow, I'm annoyed. Annoyed annoyed annoyed. I thought I could swallow and ignore it - what's another case of character bashing - but apparently not. Link me to something happy? Anyone? Anything. Pic of a baby animal. Funny, cracky fic, preferably with Sophie and/or Nate. Pretty fanart.

In a way it's interesting, this is a red-hot button I wasn't aware of until now.
[What the hell, I'm unlocking this.]

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	no subject monanotlisa 2011-05-06 05:55 pm UTC (link)
	Certain opinions of parts of fandom defy ignoring them. I get it. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject astridv 2011-05-07 10:15 am UTC (link)
	I love fandom but I'd love it a lot more without the surprise kicks in the shin. But ignoring is the best option... figure out which corner of the fandom the sentiment lives, and then avoid that. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject havocthecat 2011-05-06 08:14 pm UTC (link)
	Fandom is really damn annoying sometimes. (Ask me how alcoholism destroys lives! Just ask me! I will tell you EPICALLY how Nate doesn't deserve bashing for his tragedy of a life.) (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 6 comments) (Show 6 comments)

no subject

astridv
2011-05-06 08:28 pm UTC (link)

Holy fuck, yes. I watched my mom die from alcoholism and my grandma struggle with it. I watched it tear my family apart and scatter what's left of us into the four winds. I cannot believe the casual contempt aimed at Nate specifically for his drunkenness... especially knowing that, like you said, he was driven to it in the first place by a terrible tragedy, something that would break many people. I didn't expect this, frankly, the lack of empathy. Especially since I've seen it coming from people who're otherwise flauting their awareness of social justice issues. I guess alcohol abuse doesn't count.

I generally don't get why some fans have to tear down one character in order to elevate their favorites and every time I see it I loathe it more. But, well, preaching to the choir here.

It's not even that prevalent far as I can tell, thank god, but it just hurts and this was like the fourth or fifth time I've ran into it unawares and I just had to vent at least to you guys.

I will tell you EPICALLY how Nate doesn't deserve bashing for his tragedy of a life.)

I really feel a lot better after hearing you say that.

Last edited 2011-05-06 08:42 pm UTC

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havocthecat
2011-05-06 09:02 pm UTC (link)

Alcoholism is responsible for a lot of pain and abuse a generation ago in my family. My dad's an alcoholic and my mom's an enabler. I know it's a disease, I know it, but I still have a hard time not blaming people for having a disease. (See above, re: my dad. Whom I love a great deal, but, well. Alcoholism.)

TBH, Nate's actually more healthy in his expressions of alcoholism than most RL people. Except when he's a jerk to Sophie, but their relationship (which I love) is complicated, and they're apparently the kinds of people who've got the kind of friendship (and relationship) where they can be that honest - and cutting - with each other and have it survive.

I really love Sophie/Nate, partly because they're just so damn flawed. Both of them. And people tearing down either one really bother me.

I really feel a lot better after hearing you say that.

Thank you. Honestly, if my son developed cancer and I had to watch him die slowly, I would be destroyed. I would have to build a whole new life. I mean, not only did Nate's son die, his whole life got knocked down, and here was his chance to have a father/son relationship totally unlike what he had with his father. All his hopes for the future were shattered.

Then he succumbed to a disease. And got kicked out by his wife, for what are understandable reasons. (I am glad she didn't enable him. I am glad they showed us how Maggie is awesome.) I mean, basically, his life is a tragedy.

I love when they bring Maggie on the show, because there are many ways they've shown to cope - or not - with the death of a child, and they've now shown two of them. Maggie isn't destroyed; she's rebuilt her life from the ground up. I love that they show us that, and I love that she doesn't hate Nate. (And if anyone should, it would be Maggie. But since she doesn't, can the fandom not as well?)

I could go on for ages. Leverage is one of those shows with unbelievable character stuff.

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no subject

astridv
2011-05-06 09:52 pm UTC (link)

*nodnod*

TBH, Nate's actually more healthy in his expressions of alcoholism than most RL people.

I agree.

Except when he's a jerk to Sophie, but their relationship (which I love) is complicated, and they're apparently the kinds of people who've got the kind of friendship (and relationship) where they can be that honest - and cutting - with each other and have it survive.

Mm, yeah. I think what makes what could be a really dysfunctional friendship/relationship work is that they're playing with their cards open. They really are pretty honest with each other where it counts, which is weird considering all the lies and masks. They certainly deserve each other, and I don't mean that in a bad way at all... they're both messed up, and they somehow know how to deal with the other's messed-up-ness. (I bet they'd both have a hard time finding someone else who could.)

But then again I'm biased because I ship them like crazy. I love complicated relationships. :)

I love when they bring Maggie on the show, because there are many ways they've shown to cope - or not - with the death of a child, and they've now shown two of them. Maggie isn't destroyed; she's rebuilt her life from the ground up. I love that they show us that, and I love that she doesn't hate Nate. (And if anyone should, it would be Maggie. But since she doesn't, can the fandom not as well?)

I couldn't be happier with the way they wrote Maggie. Yes to everything you said.

Leverage is one of those shows with unbelievable character stuff.

They're so fascinating, the bunch of them, both as individuals and in the way they interact. So much potential.

(I gotta check out your Leverage meta, if you've written any.)

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no subject

havocthecat
2011-05-11 08:51 pm UTC (link)

Mm, yeah. I think what makes what could be a really dysfunctional friendship/relationship work is that they're playing with their cards open. They really are pretty honest with each other where it counts, which is weird considering all the lies and masks. They certainly deserve each other, and I don't mean that in a bad way at all... they're both messed up, and they somehow know how to deal with the other's messed-up-ness. (I bet they'd both have a hard time finding someone else who could.)

Yes! That's one of the reasons I love them so much. They actually can be honest with each other - most of the time - if not always honest with themselves.

It's one of the reasons I also like Maggie/Sophie, oddly enough. In my own personal fanon, the Portia alias that Sophie used in the First and Second David Jobs is one she's been using a while, and one that she's encountered Maggie in.

Some day, I'll write Maggie/Nate/Sophie, and it will be absolutely beautifully messed up.

As to Leverage meta, I'm not sure I've written anything that's intended to be specifically meta-ish, but my Leverage posts are all tagged. Somewhere in there is my ridiculously over-detailed Sophie Devereaux canon guide from s1. I need to finish s2 and s3, seriously.

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	no subject astridv 2011-06-20 08:52 am UTC (link)
	Some day, I'll write Maggie/Nate/Sophie, and it will be absolutely beautifully messed up. I hope you will write it sometime! I would love to see how that goes, and such fic is practically nonexistent (I looked). (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject havocthecat 2011-06-20 01:08 pm UTC (link)
	I think I've found one that was middling in quality, one that I hated, and then I wrote some Maggie/Sophie that dealt with both Maggie/Nate and Sophie/Nate, but was primarily a Maggie/Sophie fic. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject schneefink 2011-05-06 08:22 pm UTC (link)
	Happymaking things which you probably know, but more happy is always good: Grandma´s superhero therapy I Has a Sweet Potato vids: Organizing the Bookcase Where the Hell is Matt? The Golden Age of Video Who You Gonna Call? Baba Yetu (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	no subject astridv 2011-05-06 08:53 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, cool links, thanks so much! I knew only some of them. The Ghostbusters thing is really funny... when everybody starts to get what's going on. Heh. I'm surprised they were allowed to pull that stunt in the library. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject schneefink 2011-05-06 09:47 pm UTC (link)
	Glad it could cheer you up! (WTF people you DO NOT make light of alcoholism.) It looks like an awesome library! Definitely on my to-visit-list if I ever get there. "I want to go there because it's haunted!" (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject lakrids404 2011-05-06 08:57 pm UTC (link)
	Chatroulette Love Song Makes me smile when I watches it, sort of the opposite of trolling (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject astridv 2011-05-07 11:44 am UTC (link)
	Aw man, that is so cute... (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject less_star 2011-05-06 10:19 pm UTC (link)
	Wow, that shit is not on! (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject astridv 2011-05-07 11:45 am UTC (link)
	Yeah. Kinda caught me by surpise. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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